Real Talk:Licensing

[Dave Kennedy]

I discuss some of the licensing stories and some thoughts about licensing in general in this video. It's a big topic and I tried to briefly cover a few examples of specific cars and then i mention how those examples relate to licensing generally.
I've been asked in the comments on the YouTube video to do a video about the Cheetah (which I'm planning to do anyway) and also a video about my work history in slots too so people have a more full picture of my jobs in slots.

In the video I discuss the Cheetah, Sal Tovella car, ProSlot Ferrari 360 Modena, Nascar, Gulf, LeMans and Fun Cup Beetle licenses.

[Dave Kennedy]

Yes, this video is long, I'm sorry. I don't like videos this long but it's a very large topic. And the best way I could think of to illustrate it was to talk about some of the cars I have stories about.

[dw5555]

Very interesting. You would think with production numbers not being that high, the percentage, or price per piece paid to the companies for their use wouldn't amount to much. Wonder why they bother. Monetarily it wouldn't amount to much.

[noddaz]

To the owner of the rights it might not amount to much. But it is also about protecting the brand.

Scott

[BRS Hobbies]

I would like to know how the plastic model kit manufactures can do the licensed NASCAR race cars but this is next to impossible for the slot car brands. Here is a good example - salvinosjrmodels.com/

[Dave Kennedy]

If i send these to my contact at NASCAR, I bet that website is gone within a week. None of those are licensed from looking at the front of the box, they would therefore illegally produced. I don't see any notation on the front of the box about the Nascar license, normally the logo has to be on the front of the box. Do you have others that you could show the license mark if there is one on another side of the box?

[REL13]

Dave, That was real interesting, Keep up the with these videos.

[Dave Kennedy]

Thanks very much Robert.

[slothead]

Looks like the question is do we want legally produced, properly licensed, products or do we just want what we want even if it rips someone off?

Most people who have no intellectual property of their own probably don't care. I think those who rightfully own things, physical or intellectual in nature, deserve to be compensated for it.

[BRS Hobbies]

It has the GM license.

[Dave Kennedy]

that link doesn't work i'm sorry

[Dave Kennedy]

The GM license means nothing. The Nascar license is what's needed for these.

[chappyman66]

Well.....my guess is licensing is why Strombecker produced an "American GT Coupe" instead of a Chaparral 2D, as Cox had the official licensing agreement. The Mckee Mk10 is the "Olds Powered Special". Same reason that certain decal sites list Frrari decals instead of Ferrari decals.

There are lots of products out there that are, technically, illegal. But most people don't have enough profit to make it work the legal costs of enforcing the license......but Strombecker was big at the time, and the model companies have deeper pockets than what is represented by the slot car market.

Most people don't take the time or have the ethics to properly license products.....kudos are due, Dave.

And Slothead.....
This is why I don't generally advertise or sell bodies printed from files that I have received, or put them up on Thingiverse. Other people put lots of effort and IP into the creation of those files. If they want to put them up on Thingiverse for everyone, that's their choice, not mine. Profiting from their work, even if they provide it free, doesn't seem right.

[Slottus]

I have a bit of additional info regarding the Cheetah.
(After retirement, I have to write a book with those stories...)

The Cheetah to me was always a bit special.
When I first learned about that car in a ‚Michel Vaillant‘-comic, 8-year old me was fascinated by the shape and simply had to get more info.
Learned about Bill Thomas‘ story and was captured by it - such drama, such a struggle... prime stuff for dramatisation!
And when I joined Carrera in 1996, I was asked to make a list of possible cars for the american market - of course, the Cheetah had to be included!

Well, we can‘t do all the cars at once, so we kept it on the list for later.
Then, in ‘99, a rumour appeared that a „time-capsuled“ 40ft-container full of 24th- and 32nd-scale Cheetah-slotcars has been found in a finnish harbour.

Okay. Postpone it even further.

Finally, in 2009, it felt safe to do that car in 24th-scale.
I got in contact with the Bill Thomas‘ son after some searching and a lot of help from http://www.cheetahcars.com/
We had a friendly phone-conversation... Bill Thomas himself was in the hospital at that time, but his son gave us permission to do the model.
(Imagine my excitement - would be comparable to phoning with Stan Lee after reading the Marvel-comics years ago...).

Okay, we went ahead and got into pattern-stage, that was the next time I called, wanted to get the opinion on it from the man himself.
His son then told me, that he passed away some days ago.
I can‘t describe how devastated I was... had to stop the call, couldn‘t speak anymore.

But the project had to be finished. Regarding licensing-fees, Bill Thomas jr. said something along the lines of „Show me the finished product, we will negotiate the
financial side later.”
Made me a bit insecure - what if he suddenly had outlandish ideas regarding that matter? But naaah, he can‘t do that, he was always friendly and positive about the
slotcar.
Okay, first decorated sample arrives and gets sent to him.

Three days later, my phone rings at 3 a.m. (I contacted him before from home because of the time-difference).
A totally excited Bill Thomas jr. tells me over and over, how pleased he is with the slotcar, and that he doesn‘t want any money, just get this out in the shops!
Some samples will do for him, just get it out as fast as possible.

This is one of the most satisfying things I experienced in my time here in office.

[Dave Kennedy]

It was a true pleasure working with you over the years on projects Guenther.

"Slottus" is one of the good ones. He gets it. He gets that we as toy makers have a moral obligation to make good toys for people and where we can involve the real people in the process of making toys based on their real cars. We don't always get it right, but we always tried to get it right. This stuff matters.

[Slottus]

Thanks Dave and dito!

I'm still dumbfounded why you were let go.

[Dave Kennedy]

Rick didn't like me personally. He thought my photos and videos were "boring", he didn't want me working from home, implied I had to move to NJ. He called me fat and implied I was lazy. He didn't think I added any value to the company. He didn't see me posting on social media had any value and didn't think I knew how to do it. He didn't see my trips around to dealers and trade shows and doing slot events as having any value... and someone above him bought all that as a reason I guess.

[Dave Kennedy]

So besides that.... LOL!

[HomeRacingWorld]

Apparently a vision issue. Do they have good coverage for eye exams?

And today...the brand is literally non-existent on the World's largest social media sources.

But hey...what do we know?

[CG Slotcars]

A topic near and dear to my heart. Nice video Dave - and I now it could have been 2 hours long! I have always felt it's better to get permission on a car (I'll add - where possible.... I've sought out permission for all the cars I've released... )

I have 3 quick stories....
When it came time to release the first car I did - the Chaparral 2J I discovered that Jim Hall still has a race shop in Texas... So I blindly call the number expecting to get a grandson or receptionist.... Somone answers and I nervously blurt out who I am, what I'm doing and I'd like to get permission to do...... And the guy says - "Your talking a might fast for me to understand, can you repeat that fellah, This is Jim Hall by the way...." My jaw hit the floor. We worked out details and I sent him the first production car that had working fans and rigged up a case with a 9V battery so he could just push a button to make it go.... I guess it sits on his office desk now. He is a super nice guy - spoke highly of Maurizio and did mention - he didn't like being ripped off by people making models of his cars......

A few people have seen that I did an All American Racers Toyota Eagle GTP car - It hasn't been released..... I called Dan Gurney's shop and spoke to Dan's assistant of many years.... She asked that I send 7-8 cars and they would be happy to sign off on it.... It was all lined up and then Dan passed away. That car went on the back burner and as I've discovered it's very difficult to stop all the ideas and then go back to resurrect a project

Then there's Ford....... Somewhere I have ford c100 group c car...... They outsource to a company that handles licensing for them (and BMW, an 2-3 other manufacturers for the US market).... I tracked down the right guy, had a great conversation... and he sends me 40 plus page questionnaire wanting to know every detail of the business and exact detail of what I'm doing.... I would need a lawyer to review it etc etc.... so yea - back burner!!

And theres 4-5 other stories for another day......

Anyway - love the great insight Dave!

[Dave Kennedy]

Great stories too! I've heard this a lot. MOST of the time when you contact the real racers they are thrilled to have a slot car done and will most always just give you permission for free and in return are VERY happy to accept free slot cars and a set in return.

[noddaz]

Very informative Dave! Thank you on information on how companies operate and the corners that they are sometimes pushed into to make a product.

Scott

[WB2]

Just curious how these partial logos make it past.
The 24h above the number:

And the Wins..:

[Dave Kennedy]

I'll repeat... "licensing is clear as mud"

[Slottus]

A little tickling the Pitbull...

[Dave Kennedy]

coochi, coo....

[DRW-FJ40]

Thank you Dave. Very interesting and certainly explains a lot... Keep going... This is stuff that has not been covered in a hobby where most things have been...

[Proxie Ken]

Interesting topic. I would like to know some actual numbers regarding exactly how much it costs. I have contacted a couple of companies and got the 40 page application with legal stuff.


The issue is that the process is impossible to comply with for anyone that is a small company in today's legal climate. I imagine that if today's legal standards were in place in years past our youth would have been an empty place hobby wise.


I am quite inspired by this line of model kits from Hasegawa.



It is an American Coupe type "I". They make a few others. No names are used. I assume no license is required.


Licensing is a very confusing and complex issue. It is not really the money that is the problem, but all the red tape. For the tiny numbers involved it requires a ridiculous amount of paperwork. Well beyond the ability of any small operation.

[dinglebery]

Can't see the picture you posted

[Proxie Ken]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasegawa-1-24-1965-Chevy-Impala-SS-w-Girl-Figure-IN-1966-Box-Model-Kit-52202/333534648616?epid=15029699743&hash=item4da836d928:g:dksAAOSw5oheXs8p