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  • Another solved "problem"

    I have been slotracing for ca. 50 years now. Scratchbuilding is the ultimate to me. Chassis and motor building, arm rewinding, rim / hub lathing, tyre trueing, making bodies etc. etc.
    So when I decided to switch to 43rd scale one of the main reasons was that I would ( at last ) be able do scratchbuild almost everything myself again.
    There are models ( kits ) of more or less every car I would like to have as a slotcar.
    I love open cars, like CanAm and any kind of LM etc. spyders.
    But besides that I also love to make my cars as scale as possible. This includes open cockpits, of course, as well.
    On the other hand I do not want to be restricted by the motor size or installation principle. I do not want to use inline primarily although it would not really be necessary.
    So I had to hit the trail for finding usable motors. Small enough to fit in all cars but powerful enough to give me the pleasure I had been used from the bigger scales. Not the speed, of course. I drive 43rd scale now, so the speed may be slower - logical. But it must be adequate nevertheless.It took me an odyssey of four years finally to have what I intended to.
    First I found the right size : N 20, i.e. 15x12x10 mm
    But - either too low voltage or too high rpm or both in one.
    And - not enough power.
    So my first attempt was rewinding. But although showing tiny improvements in performance it wasn´t satisfactory because of the comparative low mag power.
    Then last but not least I found motors with really strong magnets and appropriate rpm. One of them is still "active" and really successful.
    At this point I started searching for different motors because I had become sure not to find „the one“ who would have all the specs I needed :
    • 12 volts
    • 26 000 to 35 000 rpm
    • strong magnets
    • carbon brushes

    Anyway finally, after a long time of searching, I found what I had imagined.

    Since then I haven´t had to worry about motors anymore.
    One motor donates the arm, the other the can and mags, the third the endbell with brushes. The rpm decrease a bit because of the stronger magnetic field but the motors are still really fast enough. And they have an excellent acceleration and braking.
    The only disadvantage – if one wants to call it so – is the arm shaft diameter of 1 mm.
    But since I have been used to rummaging around for decades finally I found telescopic brass tubing that sizes the standard 1.5 mm or 2 mm pinion bores down to 1 mm.

    Well, a lot of patience and a lot of experiments ( = fun !!! ) lead to the intended aim. I don´t have any trouble with designing and building chassis for almost any car and all three drive train principles – inline, anglewinder, sidewinder.
    The weight of the motors is so low that there are all opportunities to play with overall weight connected with an optimum c.o.g.

    During the long research time I had bought and wasted ca. 100 different N20 – motors.
    It was worth the little expense.
    Long live the Chinese with their low price policy J.

    Roland

    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Good work Roland, I know you have been working on this project for some time and look forward to seeing them in chassis when you build them.

    Regards, Lloyd.

    Comment


    • #3
      They are in chassis yet, Lloyd. I think I had already shown pictures but am not sure, so :

      Click image for larger version

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      The cars as usual not finished yet ( the journey is the reward ), in the rear you see one with a tuned GO!- motor.

      Btw, Lloyd, watching the activities here and in the other forums you are right regarding the migration to Facebook&co.

      Regards,

      Roland

      Comment


      • #4
        very nice chassis, Roland!
        i would really like to run that Mini one time on my track!

        Comment


        • #5
          I have been able to find N20 motors that perform really well on 12 volts. Yes, made in China and sold on eBay. They are typically listed on eBay as rated for 7.2 volts, with carbon brushes and "strong" magnets. No need to hybridize them -- great motors as is. They have a cooling hole in the can, like many shown in the original post. They're plenty strong enough for 1/43rd scale cars and overly strong for HO cars. Despite the 7.2 volt rating these motors handle 12 volts without issues. They run cool and I've never had one burn out.

          Over a couple of years I have been able to buy more than 100 of these motors, gathered in inventory to power my custom slotcar products -- primarily my 1/50th scale Wingmaster Sprint cars. Those cars are heavy, being largly diecast models, but those M20 motors boss them around with authority.

          I wish I could cite you a brand and model number, but I've never been able to discover such. The best way to identify them is the description I gave above -- particularly the 7.2 volt rating and the cooling hole. I've ever only found them on eBay and never consistently. I just kept checking to see if any got listed.

          My good friend Gerry Cullan has found some M20 motors -- smaller yet -- that he has used to power his custom HO cars. Amazingly quick. Very possibly the fastest HO gravity cars ever.

          Another good motor for 1/43rd cars is the LifeLike motor out of their HO scale "T" cars. It is an open-frame motor with carbon brushes and rare-earth magnets.

          All of the above have a 1mm diameter armature shaft. The pinion gear for the LifeLike HO "T" motor is an exact fit for all of them and are available as a separate part.

          Ed Bianchi
          Last edited by HO RacePro; May 16, 2021, 09:17 AM.
          Ed Bianchi
          York Pennsylvania USA

          Comment


          • #6
            ​ @ Peter : You will.
            But actually it is not really driveable yet. The gear ratio still provides way too much acceleration and brake and I am musing about what to do.
            As small as the (H0) crown is yet, the only way will probably be to try bigger pinions - or other motors.


            @Ed : As I wrote I want motors for my specs. And these begin at 12 volts, not 7,2.
            Of course I still have around 20 of the 7,2V Neos.
            And of course they work as well. But my own ones meet my needs better.


            The Lifelike Motors



            - are too big for what I need
            - don´t have the power curve as I need it
            - have no comparable performance
            - their shaft is less than 1,0 mm

            My needs, my specs. Not more.


            Roland​

            Comment


            • #7
              Finding the right motors ?
              No problem. Insert the motor type, the voltage, the rpm, the mag type.

              Roland

              Comment


              • #8
                @Ed - thanks - that´s good information about the N20 motors

                @Roland - i hear you about the gear ratio for the Mini.
                If i remember right i settled for 8/20 with BSRT gears and the box motor from slotcarsdirect, the standard motor for AFX (that´s all the spec i know, sorry) cheap, only 2 GBP and provides a perfect power curve for a Mini.

                The LifeLike motor sounds interesting too! Commonly available? Because searching for H0 parts is not really easy IMO.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you, Peter. A good starting point for me, a ratio 1:2.5.

                  The lifelike motors are not worth the money for being used in 43rd cars - IMHO of course.

                  1. the too thin shaft
                  2. the very bad magnet material quality. The mags literally crumble into dust over the time.
                  First the nickel coating begins to dissolve and under it the pressed mag is already becoming dust in the wind. This has been my experience with 21 of these motors in six years.
                  3. the size

                  They aren´t produced anymore and as far as I know you got them only in the chassis.

                  https://badlhby.com/product_info.php...oducts_id=4925
                  http://slotcarcentral.com/drupal-5/f...wm.preview.jpg

                  I even didn´t dare to offer these motors for sale because of the bad quality. I threw them in the bin.

                  I tried to replace the oroginal mags by similarly sized ones from the huge Chinese offer asnd it worked.

                  But in the meantime I had found my final concept and this was the end of Life (like) for me. :-))

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    These chassis look fast Roland. Nice work all the way around

                    Cheers

                    Dan
                    Cheers

                    Dan
                    G.P Alberta

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And here a picture that shows one of the optimistic attempts to use these motors. In 43rd scale drag races. Too little power and rpm.
                      Motor screwed in of course.

                      Roland


                      Click image for larger version

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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        > Because searching for H0 parts is not really easy IMO.

                        Lucky Bob's is probably the best source I've found for HO parts.

                        Ed Bianchi
                        Ed Bianchi
                        York Pennsylvania USA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HO RacePro View Post
                          I have been able to find N20 motors that perform really well on 12 volts. Yes, made in China and sold on eBay. They are typically listed on eBay as rated for 7.2 volts, with carbon brushes and "strong" magnets. No need to hybridize them -- great motors as is. They have a cooling hole in the can, like many shown in the original post. They're plenty strong enough for 1/43rd scale cars and overly strong for HO cars. Despite the 7.2 volt rating these motors handle 12 volts without issues. They run cool and I've never had one burn out.

                          Over a couple of years I have been able to buy more than 100 of these motors, gathered in inventory to power my custom slotcar products -- primarily my 1/50th scale Wingmaster Sprint cars. Those cars are heavy, being largly diecast models, but those M20 motors boss them around with authority.

                          I wish I could cite you a brand and model number, but I've never been able to discover such. The best way to identify them is the description I gave above -- particularly the 7.2 volt rating and the cooling hole. I've ever only found them on eBay and never consistently. I just kept checking to see if any got listed.

                          My good friend Gerry Cullan has found some M20 motors -- smaller yet -- that he has used to power his custom HO cars. Amazingly quick. Very possibly the fastest HO gravity cars ever.

                          Another good motor for 1/43rd cars is the LifeLike motor out of their HO scale "T" cars. It is an open-frame motor with carbon brushes and rare-earth magnets.

                          All of the above have a 1mm diameter armature shaft. The pinion gear for the LifeLike HO "T" motor is an exact fit for all of them and are available as a separate part.

                          Ed Bianchi
                          10mm*12mm DC 3V 3.7V 32800RPM High Speed Strong NdFeB Magnetic Micro N20 Motor | eBay Does this look like what you are talking about ED? Looking for a good drag motor, (lotsa speed, no worries about desloting in corners corners) possibly for a Mega G+ chassis and possibly some 1/43 applications. Now that I took a second looks I see 3.7v. Not seeing anything over 5V, so far.
                          Last edited by elcaminobill; May 26, 2021, 08:31 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Although I´m not Ed :

                            15x12x10 mm, as I wrote above, are the N-20 motors. Take into account the shaft is only 1 mm dia.
                            First and foremost you should be sure that the motors have carbon brushes. Otherwise they aren´t able to transfer the power you need for a drag car. Espacially if you want to run them with 12 volts.
                            In this case the should at least be designed for 7.2 volts.
                            3.7 V and 37 000 rpm - this would be ca. 90 000 rpm at 12 volts. ( Yes, I know, this is not exactly figured out, only estimated.)
                            Neither the commutators nor the winds are designed for such centrifugal forces and heat. And the motors are not balanced, the winds not glued, the comms not secured.
                            In most of the N 20 motors there are only extremely thin metal strips that aren´t designed to transfer real power.("precious brushes")

                            I have been testing such motors for about ten years now and for more than four years I assemble them as described in my first text and won´t get back to anything else. More rpm are not necessary for playing at home. And if I need a faster motor, I wind an arm and do as much as possible and necessary of all the things I had been doing with 24th scale, 32nd scale and other superfast motors.

                            Roland

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