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2020 TransAm U2 Proxy - Round #10 - The River Run

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  • #16
    I’m fine with a tire clean although I have not watched qualifying. For those that would like a tire clean it’s a go assuming that the majority is in agreement.

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    • #17
      I say give them all a clean. level the playing field, those that dont pipe in....

      Comment


      • Fast Co.
        Fast Co. commented
        Editing a comment
        ^^^ What Doc said.

      • JTK
        JTK commented
        Editing a comment
        I agree.

    • #18
      I'm sorry that the equitable treatment issue has arisen.

      If you watch the video (which you should do), then you'll see that both car #10 and # 13 were totally undriveable in the condition that they arrived in. Since this was not the case in the previous round, we figured that, for some reason, they had picked up something on their tires that made them "skate" around the track. Times would have been in the 13-15 second range for both cars, which is way out of line with their previous performances in all rounds, and because of that, they would have constituted a danger on the track to other cars in their heats, or we would have had to DSQ them. My track is high-grip for rubber tired cars, so skating here at the River Run is a sign that the tires are loaded-up with something.

      Car #13 qualified in 25th position after the tire cleaning - it qualified 26th in the previous Round #9 and 27th in the one before that; Round #8. Car #10 qualified in 16th position after the tire cleaning and qualified 21st in the previous Round #9 and 15th in the round before that; Round #8. So, not a whole lot of difference when you take into consideration the overall qualifying position changes for those two cars between Round #8, Round #9 and Round #10. The other cars all hooked up well, were very drivable and yielded a field that qualified, order-wise, not unlike previous rounds.

      The best way for everyone to understand this issue fully is to watch the video. Go to Scott's (War Eagle River) post #5 on page one of this thread, click on the blue link and it will take you to the Facebook video. If you don't have time to watch the whole thing, then you can look at car #13 by going directly to the 16'10" (16:10) segment of the video, then look at car #10 by going directly to the 46'10" (46:10) segment of the video. There you'll see both cars, pre-cleaning and post-cleaning.

      Or here:

      https://fb.watch/1TKnzT-vF5/

      But, if the equitable treatment - read "fair" - issue is really a big one for some or all of you and if you feel that has been breached by cleaning the tires on cars #10 and #13 after watching the video, which I would urge all of you to do so that you can have an informed opinion, then we are not adverse to cleaning all of the rear tires on all of the cars before the start of today's race. Alternatively, we can DSQ both the #10 and #13 cars as risks to the field and race the other cars as they are, or we can race the #10 and #13 cars with the field and they can be assessed a reasonable penalty.

      I'll let Tony make the decision on that and will do whatever he wants us to do .

      Pax!

      Allan
      Last edited by Audi1; November 22, 2020, 11:12 AM.

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      • Brumos RSR
        Brumos RSR commented
        Editing a comment
        After reviewing the video and past race results, this did not alter the performance in a way that was detrimental to the results of the other participants. It was also not done during race conditions or with the thoughts of giving an advantage to particular car or cars. As much as I would like to have all tires cleaned as well as my own, that may alter the positioning of cars either for better or worse and take away from the spirit of proxy racing. Therefore no tires will be cleaned in addition to the method that Audi1 has consistently used prior to a car racing or switching lanes. I hope all participants understand and accept this decision.

    • #19
      I'm not sure of the issues, but here in the NW we clean the tires with sticky tape/lint roller on EVERY car before qualification and before every heat. The builders have put a lot of time/effort/$$$ into these cars and we strive to get the best performance out of them.

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      • Doubl-B
        Doubl-B commented
        Editing a comment
        That is also what was done in rounds 8 and 9 here in the NE Connecticut.
        (As per the rules)
        "Inspection and Repairs: A running inspection of cars is to be made before and after each race. Cars may be cleaned, lubricated and tires sanded or scuffed if needed. The only tire cleaning allowed is tape rolling. Minor adjustments, such as lubrication, adjusting the braids, checking for free-turning front wheels, replacement of loose guide wires, etc. (all routine maintenance) may be made by the track host crew prior to the car being raced without penalty."
        BB

      • Audi1
        Audi1 commented
        Editing a comment
        We do the same thing, Mitch. But, the use of a sticky pad had absolutely no effect on car #10 or #13

    • #20
      NOTICE:

      Gentlemen - we have another issue that looks like it's going to give us all plenty of time to determine how to proceed on the tire cleaning issue. Here it is.

      Due to the rising incidence of COVID-19 positive test results here in the New England states, last night, Massachusetts' Governor Baker imposed a no-entrance rule on cars coming into MA from NH. This pertains to non-essential cross-borders travel. There's a $500 fine associated with breaking that rule as well as a documentation on your record. One of our drivers (dungeonracer) was coming down from NH for the race this morning, but that's not possible now. We're scrambling for another good driver here in MA, but it's not looking good. So, it looks like the race is off for today; unfortunately. Those of you who run proxy races know what a bummer this is, because once you're set, the last thing you need is an 11th hour change of plans.

      So, we'll either have to wait for a day when we can get 3 racers from North Shore, MA back together, or we'll have to send the cars on to another track for Round #10. I'll know more later today, but, unfortunately, it looks like we'll have to postpone today's race.

      I'll keep you all updated.

      Allan
      Last edited by Audi1; November 22, 2020, 10:24 AM.

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      • Audi1
        Audi1 commented
        Editing a comment
        Sorry, no race today.

    • #21
      Apology form me. Genuinely didn't mean to stir things up with my alcohol comment. I'm good with tape, the typical standard treatment. After 9 rounds my car pretty much is where it is. Sorry for the covid difficulties. Proxies have been a nice diversion from this mess. No surprise it reaches out to interfere with our fun.

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      • #22
        Just one more example of the government trampling all over our rights. Sure looks and sounds like the easten block country's in the 60 and 70's. What next boarder guards and travel papers. Here in the far left of Oregon the governor has asked people to report on there neighbor if they see more than 7 family members gathering for Thanksgiving.
        Last edited by docdoom; November 22, 2020, 10:46 AM.

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        • Gascarnut
          Gascarnut commented
          Editing a comment
          Come on guys, let's leave politics for those other sites. No need for it here.

        • JTK
          JTK commented
          Editing a comment
          I agree with Gascarnut. Situation sucks, but this has been one of my only sanctuaries from politics this year. Hopefully we can keep it that way.

        • docdoom
          docdoom commented
          Editing a comment
          sorry about stirring the pot there. try my best to keep politics out of my slot car talk.

      • #23
        Car 13 was very loose on all three tracks in North Carolina too. I don’t recall how #10 performed. I’m not averse to cleaning the tires with alcohol, but I think that option should be granted for all those that want it. I would be ok with an alcohol cleaning on my car #35.

        Hopefully, Round 10 can take place at River Run as scheduled, but I certainly understand if it cannot. Stay safe everyone. That’s the most important thing. Looks like we are not too far off from having an effective vaccine.
        Team SCANC
        Woodland Trace Raceway - SlotZuka - Bent Tree Raceway
        OFI - Buena Vista Motorsports Park - Slotkins Glen
        Leadfinger Raceway

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        • #24
          Last year when Shoreline Model Raceways was doing another proxy that used urethane tires we found that a car that had been a top finisher in all of the preceding races had qualified just about in last place. I inspected the tires and found that they had become glazed, the tires on the other cars did not appear to be glazed. Sticky tape did not remove the glaze, so I used some spray electrical contact cleaner on a rag to wipe down the tires and that restored their grip. Looking back at it I should have done the tires on all of the cars. When I posted the race report I also commented on the tire situation.
          Since I sometimes test silicone and urethane tires on the same track I know that silicone tires leave a residue on the track and if you then run urethane tires they will get coated and their grip will decrease greatly. The coating has to be washed off, I use Pinesol, but most other surface cleaners should work. If I have been running on silicone tires I strip the track down with lighter fluid before I switch to urethane tires. I then run a few hundred laps with urethane tires with some stops for cleaning to fully condition the track. SMR normally runs on silicone tires, if we are hosting a race for cars with urethane tires many laps are run with them before the race and silicone tires are not run until the proxy racing is done.
          I have wondered why only one car had the problem and the best answer that I could come up with was that since the car in question was a top runner everyone would have elected to practice with it for the races that preceded ours.
          In any case you might want to review the rules and procedures that pertain to tire cleaning.
          Last edited by Audi1; November 22, 2020, 11:14 AM.

          Comment


          • Audi1
            Audi1 commented
            Editing a comment
            I agree with RichD, I think we may want to take a look at what's allowed for tires under Inspection and Repairs in the Rules since, for example, tire sanding is allowed. I get the point about sticking to the Rules and I helped to develop some of the rules that are in use today in some proxies. It was not our intent to un-level the playing field by cleaning the tires on car #10 and #13 only to try to re-level it again. However, in the interest of finding a viable solution, rather than putting a finer point on the problem, I have suggested some ways that we can proceed in post #18, we have paths forward, we just need to agree on one of them.

          • Gascarnut
            Gascarnut commented
            Editing a comment
            As a host of a number of Proxy events over the years, I have seen this issue as well. I have always tested the field of cars before qualifying to check for damage, and I have in at least two different series had some cars that were undrivable due to crud on the tires. I'm both cases the cars arrived at my track from a venue that normally runs silicone tires, but I can't say definitively that this was the cause, as not all cars were affected. However in my opinion it was best to clean the tires of all cars to ensure fairness. On doing so, have always cleaned with alcohol rather than a petroleum distillate like lighter fluid, as that would have materially changed the grip of rubber tires.

          • Cgyracer
            Cgyracer commented
            Editing a comment
            RichD, Great work your group does to get silicone tracks ready for non silicone tire proxies so you can run a fair proxy. Great job you have done in the past.

        • #25
          I'm sorry about the failed race attempt today, but Matt (changing.gearz) came over to pick up some motors that Bob Bianchi had left for him Friday, and ....... he has a "new" old car - and it's a beauty!

          I'm going to leave it to Matt to describe more fully, but it's a 1957 BMW Isetta 300. A single-cylinder, 300 cc, 4 speed "happy car". My wife, Marty, came running down the stairs - right out of the shower, hair still wet - just to see it!

          It is one cute car!!

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          I'll try to add a video from my phone later.

          Enjoy!

          Allan

          Last edited by Audi1; November 22, 2020, 11:26 AM.

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          • #26
            That a brave man with a huge pair to have the guts to drive that. Little alone on a freeway..

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            • #27
              Click image for larger version

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              I don’t think the little lemon drop is his first rodeo. He’s driven a thing or two but yeah, he probably has a wheel barrel

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              • #28
                The nice thing about Matt's car is he can drive it on the street and slot car track!! Cool car Matt!

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                • #29
                  Years ago there was a story in Road&Track about Formula 1 drivers running Isettas down a bobslead run. To make things even more interesting the passenger in one of the cars unlatched the door part way down.

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                  • #30
                    Originally posted by Brumos RSR View Post
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                    he probably has a wheel barrel
                    Who wants to carry a wheel barrel around when you can cruise comfortably in an Isetta ;-)

                    I had an Isetta about 32 years ago..... I took my girlfriend at the time (now wife...) to my high school prom and spent that summer driving it everywhere. I've been on the look out for a driver for a few years now (prices on Isetta's have gone insane!) and I just happen to catch a decent one at the right time for me...

                    I don't take it on highways (yet)..... Mostly roads where I can maintain the pace - but as I said to Allen, anything over 45mph you are in Gods hands!!
                    It gets about 40 miles to the gallon - 3 gallon tank, no gas gauge!! weighs about 800 pounds with 13Hp - most lawn tractors today have more horsepower! The yellow hides a few flaws and was not the original color (like a sea foam green color).... I'll bring it back to original over 3-4 years...

                    I have fun driving anything - but I really enjoy driving this! Going 30 on a back road is just as fun as any sports car on a race track.....


                    Comment


                    • docdoom
                      docdoom commented
                      Editing a comment
                      people must drive a little more sane in your parts. drivers in my neck of the country drive way to fast and blow way to many stop signs and red lights you end up being planted 6 feet under in that thing here....
                      that reminds me of a joke i heard .


                      these guys driving in car with coworker when they come up to red light. instead of stopping the guy guns it and runs the light. the guys says that was a red light that you just ran. i can replies yes it was. so they keep driving and they come to another light that just turned red. guy guns it again and runs the red light. so they keep going and they come to another light but these time it stays green. but instead of going through the the light the driver slams on the breaks and stops. the passengers says what are you doing it green. the driver replies yes but my brother may be coming through.

                    • Audi1
                      Audi1 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Being a MA native, I was amused at one point, probably 5-6 decades ago when someone, without knowing where I was from, took a stab at characterizing MA drivers when at stop lights. He said: "In Mass, if it's green it means proceed with reckless abandon, if it's yellow it means step on it and if it's red it means you've almost missed the green"- or something like that. As much as I like my home state, MA drivers are something else altogether...............
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