Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mag to Magless

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mag to Magless

    I'm considering converting my fleet to Magless. I'm a home racer with 90% GT cars - many different manufacturers. Carrera Digital track. There are no clubs nor tracks in my area. Would several of you send car weighting pics I can use for guidance?

    Thanks,
    David
    David

  • #2
    All depends on the car and your driving style/abilities, track layout, etc, to how you weight the cars. If your just looking for a jumping in point, give us an example of your layout and what cars you would like to tune to that circuit. Many variables.
    Scott.....War Eagle River......Tampa, Florida, USA
    Facebook-
    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100018917899105
    YouTube-
    https://youtube.com/channel/UCB2327w8u_O8RjKeY4kFonQ

    Comment


    • #3
      Also depends on scale.

      My 1/32 cars vary between 80-100+g
      Kevan - Isle of Man
      Life is like a box of Slot cars...🚓🚗🚚🚜

      Comment


      • #4
        The next thing you will need to consider is what tires you use

        Comment


        • #5
          Having done this with my Carrera track at home, here's some advice:
          1. Take off the back magnets on your Carrera cars and get used to driving them on your track.
          2. Tires are way way way more important than weight.
          3. Driving skill is way way way more important than tires or weight.
          4. Half-mag Carrera is a good way to get used to driving no-mag without the frustration of full no-mag on your home track.
          5. Turn the brakes way up. They matter much more without magnets.
          6. Expect your lap times to go way up.
          7. If you don't have the extra side pieces installed on the outsides of every curve, you need to do that. Otherwise your outside cars will just lean on the fence.
          8. If you have several Carrera cars that are the same body type, you will find that they perform differently depending on tire hardness.
          9. Carrera cars with hard tires will become completely un-drivable.

          Consider replacing your stock Carrera guides with SlotInvasionUSA.com guides. These guides are deeper and thicker and they really help prevent de-slotting. It will ease your learning curve significantly.
          Once you've gotten your lap times down to a reasonable consistency with half-mag, start replacing your rear tires with Paul Gage. At about $6/pair, it's well worth the investment. When I replaced the tires on my half-mag fleet, it was like putting the magnets back in. Simply amazing improvement in performance. - My advice is still to race on stock tires until you get the hang of racing with reduced traction.

          Your home track's layout makes a big difference. If you have nothing but R1 curves, you are going to be doing a lot of slowing down, or you'll simply find the speed that makes it through everything. If you have a mix of sweeping turns where you can flat-out and sharp turns where brake points are key, you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of the track. If you have crossovers, make sure there's at least 2 straights after a curve before the crossovers, because the cars are going to hang out a bit and they won't hit the detectors unless they have a chance to straighten out.

          Good luck!

          Comment


          • #6
            Take a look at this article: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzL...ew?usp=sharing

            Comment


            • #7
              The most important factor in running gravity cars is the rear axle. And the most important factor of the rear axle is the tires. You need good, grippy tires, ideally glued and trued. Don't fuss with added weight until you have the rear axle sorted.

              That includes making sure the rear axle is straight and a good fit in its bushings. It may also mean upgrading to aluminum set-screw wheels. Cheap cars with plastic wheels pressed onto a knurled axle might require a complete replacement of tires, wheels, axle, gear and bushings.

              All of the above assumes you are looking for best performance. You can certainly get by with the stock hardware of inexpensive cars if you are satisfied with their performance. How much effort and money you want to invest is up to you.

              Sadly the big hit in upgrading your cars would be the purchase of a tire-truing machine . Those machines are expensive and often in short supply. But in slotcar competition it is what separates the winners from the also-rans. If you do make that investment you should be able to field some truly competitive cars.
              Ed Bianchi
              York Pennsylvania USA

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Thunderjet 34 View Post
                The next thing you will need to consider is what tires you use
                Yep - Plan to switch from Urethanes to Silicones
                David

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RichD View Post
                  Yep - reviewed this and incorporated most, I true but not glue at this point. If I get to participate in a club at some point. I will consider gluing. I am advised by Minnesota club members (that includes at least one top national competitor) that out-of-the box non-glued silicones and a clean track are suitable for their club activities - so I'll go with non-glued for now.

                  This club also took the time to review cars I sent them and indicated the cars ran smooth and quietly enough, but offered suggestions such as softer Slot.it braids over the Thunderslots braids I have been using.
                  David

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by perrotoro View Post


                    This club also took the time to review cars I sent them and indicated the cars ran smooth and quietly enough, but offered suggestions such as softer Slot.it braids over the Thunderslots braids I have been using.

                    Why not make the changes that your local club guys have suggested, then give the cars a run on your track...........the handling characteristics of each car will give you a good idea of where and how much weight may be of help........each car may benefit from different amounts and positioning of weight, depending on the handling of each.

                    Please make a follow up post on each cars' handling if you need more help.

                    Cheers
                    Chris Walker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I run silicone rear tires on all of my cars and only glue them on plastic rims. I find front wheel height adjustments and the blade guide have a huge impact on cornering. I use a slotting+ guide assembly on all my cars. SCC has guide conversion kits I use on all the cars that don't have adjustable front wheel height.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RexCadral View Post
                        Having done this with my Carrera track at home, here's some advice:
                        1. Take off the back magnets on your Carrera cars and get used to driving them on your track.
                        2. Tires are way way way more important than weight.
                        3. Driving skill is way way way more important than tires or weight.
                        4. Half-mag Carrera is a good way to get used to driving no-mag without the frustration of full no-mag on your home track.
                        5. Turn the brakes way up. They matter much more without magnets.
                        6. Expect your lap times to go way up.
                        7. If you don't have the extra side pieces installed on the outsides of every curve, you need to do that. Otherwise your outside cars will just lean on the fence.
                        8. If you have several Carrera cars that are the same body type, you will find that they perform differently depending on tire hardness.
                        9. Carrera cars with hard tires will become completely un-drivable.

                        Consider replacing your stock Carrera guides with SlotInvasionUSA. .com guides. These guides are deeper and thicker and they really help prevent de-slotting. It will ease your learning curve significantly.
                        Once you've gotten your lap times down to a reasonable consistency with half-mag, start replacing your rear tires with Paul Gage. At about $6/pair, it's well worth the investment. When I replaced the tires on my half-mag fleet, it was like putting the magnets back in. Simply amazing improvement in performance. - My advice is still to race on stock tires until you get the hang of racing with reduced traction.

                        Your home track's layout makes a big difference. If you have nothing but R1 curves, you are going to be doing a lot of slowing down, or you'll simply find the speed that makes it through everything. If you have a mix of sweeping turns where you can flat-out and sharp turns where brake points are key, you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of the track. If you have crossovers, make sure there's at least 2 straights after a curve before the crossovers, because the cars are going to hang out a bit and they won't hit the detectors unless they have a chance to straighten out.

                        Good luck!
                        Thanks.
                        1) Yep - for sure.
                        2) Yep will switch from ST and QS Urethanes to ST and QS Silicones with more track wipe-downs. Veterans here have suggested here that ST and QS come extremely well trued - you agree? I have a Tire Razor but don't think I could improve the surface of these tires. I get QS CB57,8,9's and ST 1407,8,9's
                        3) Of course a matter of subjectivity. As a wood track flexi-racer in the early 80's in south Florida, I was very competitive with lesser tuned equipment. I could drive deeper into the corners than the frequent race-night competitors. My college baseball and ping-pong club history hopefully reflect well on my eye-hand and twitch-reflexes. So I won't know unless I get to competing scenario, but if categories were beginner 1&2, intermediate 1&2, and Advanced (like our Pickle Ball League), I'd hope I was Intermediate-1 after a few laps on an unknown track with comparably tuned cars. Think I'd at least be Intermediate 2 after a few competitions.
                        4) I try to stay with Stock magnets on each car: Slot.it, Carrera, Scaley, etc., but I think I'll cold-turkey without mags to start. I think My skills can handle this.
                        5)Will turn brakes way-up - thanks. Interesting that the Minneapolis club (that runs magless) to which I sent a few cars from my magnet fleet to get their general comments, returned them in full brake mode. A testament to your suggestion.
                        6) Yep! My track Carrera track has one 14' straight, three ~7' straights and the rest curve/technical. I tune each (of the 90+) cars until it will run sub 6-sec laps with mags. Would a good expectation be 10, 20, 30% slower?
                        7) hmm - will consider more rails than I have. See track Picture. I'm not sure I want to add more rails for purposes of running magless. Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7596.jpg
Views:	240
Size:	122.5 KB
ID:	156468
                        8) Yep - have experimented with Firm, XFirm and Soft and somewhat expect soft to be better for non-mag. (I'm not seeing a urinary specialist as yet )
                        9) ditto 8
                        10) Yep - using deep guides - nearly all cars.
                        11) Tried PGT's - no comment.
                        12 - Track Layout - see 6 above.



                        David

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kevan View Post
                          Also depends on scale.

                          My 1/32 cars vary between 80-100+g
                          Yeh - my cars are 80-100 but that's with magnets, not weights. How much weight to each car do you add typically?
                          David

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So the club guys (discussed above) weren't really making magless tuning suggestions. They were just kindly reviewing the tuning of my mag cars since I have no club or tracks within an 8-10 hour radius in my area. Generally my tuning was "good" according to the group - that was good to hear since I have had no way to get feedback. They did offer that I consider magless as an option for the future (I know most here run magless) and that that would give me several months of reworking my fleet.

                            So back to my original question above, would anyone be willing to show pics of weighting techniques of non-mag weighted cars? No worries if that is considered a trade secret. If so, is lead tape just in front of the rear axle the method of general consensus? One guy on the Wednesday zoom call was using a micro strain gauge at each tire to precisely balance his cars (cool stuff). I don't think I'll get to that point with my home racing scenario, but I would like to know general techniques.

                            Thanks,
                            David

                            David

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi David,..Here are a few cars with weight added..........however, I do not think that they are of any value to you whatsoever. These are weighted for the track designs and surfaces they run on, or for the proxy tracks they will run on, with the motors, tires. gear ratios that they will be run with................all your particular parameters could be very different, which will require different amounts and placement of weight, if any at all !!

                              As has been mentioned several times in the prior posts,...build the car (to your rules) to the best of your ability, (without any added weight) and put it on the track,.........its handling characteristics will dictate where and how much (if any) will be needed.

                              But, just for fun, here a few shots.

                              Cheers
                              Chris Walker

                              Some benefit from weight.....................

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	DSCN4748.jpg Views:	0 Size:	235.4 KB ID:	156646

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	DSCN4653.jpg Views:	0 Size:	251.6 KB ID:	156641

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	DSCN4715.jpg Views:	0 Size:	232.0 KB ID:	156642

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	DSCN4390.jpg Views:	0 Size:	251.3 KB ID:	156643



                              Click image for larger version  Name:	2004-01-01-00-00-00-99-copy.jpg Views:	0 Size:	281.5 KB ID:	156644

                              And some do not need any at all.................

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	DSCN4733.jpg Views:	0 Size:	233.2 KB ID:	156645

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X
                              UA-149438709-1