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  • Considerations and questions for prepping and painting a NSR white kit

    Hi folks,

    I’m a noob when it comes to painting, but I have a white kit NSR 908/3 that’s been sitting on the shelf forever. With no work, and time on my hands, and good weather I thought it’s time to pull my finger out.

    I’ve researched both the old and new forum, plus some other forums so advice on how best to proceed with painting white kits with a rattle can. Found some info, but only bits and pieces her and there - nothing definitive.

    So thought I’d outline what I’ve found/interpreted. I know there are some very experienced modelers here that can confirm or point me in the right direction for how one goes about this.

    Prepping White Body
    - lightly sand to scuff up body to take off the shine and allow the primer something to adhere to. Is 600 grit too rough, or should I go finer?
    - wash the body after sanding with a drop of dishwashing liquid in warm water with a toothbrush, rinse and dry with a lint free cloth

    Primer
    - I’m going to use Tamiya fine primer from a spray can (white - as a base for pink)
    - need to ensure the can is well shaken and warm; put can in warm water prior to using - to help the paint flow better
    - first test spray on something else, then quick spray upside down, then clean out and wipe down the nozzle
    - light mist, 18” away, two to three quick passes on each section
    - let sit for at least 20 mins to cure
    - clean out any excess paint in panel lines with back of an X-acto knife, if need be
    - do second primer pass like the first, again at least 20 mins to set; repeat panel line clean up if need be
    - do a third light primer pass and let set up
    - wait overnight, do a we think sand of the primer with 1500 grit
    - clean body with dishwashing liquid and dry as above

    Paint
    - repeat steps above to get paint ready, same approach with 3 sets of light misting passes to avoid paint runs, bubbles etc
    - should I wet sand here, say with 2000 or finer grit sand paper?
    - Now here is where I need some expert advice, should I do a wet coat? And for applying a wet coat from a rattle can, what’s the best method or approach to avoid runs?
    - then how may wet coats do folks do? I presume 1? If more than one coat, how long should I let it cure?
    - then wet sand here again (same grit 2000 as above?)
    - clean and dry body as above
    - then maybe use a car polish like Meguairs?

    Clear Coat & Decals
    - I am planning on using Future to clear the body and am thinking to clear BEFORE I decal, by dipping the car and let the excess run off onto a paper towel
    - I expect that I will I need to remove the paper towel to avoid it sticking to the body, so how quickly does Future dry? I live in a dry climate, and it will be warm this week 80-90F.
    - I have read that Future self levels, but have folks had to do anything as part of the run off or leveling?
    - is there any wet sanding or polishing required at this point?
    ​​​​​​- I will be ordering peel and stick decals from Pattos, and from I can tell they behave well with Future
    - so apply the decals then dip / apply another Future coat

    Trying my best to know what I need to do before I get started and avoid screwing up, or at least minimizing my mistakes.

    Appreciate your insight and advice - cheers!
    Tom
    Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
    Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

  • #2
    Tom, there are modellers on this site that does amazing work, most of my paint work is for cars that will be used, however sometimes after all the effort, it does not get used as often as I originally thought 😁

    Here are a few tips from my own experience, others might agree or maybe not, I am making the assumption the car that you are painting will be raced.

    1) Future is great, but IMO not the right product for a car that will be used on a regular basis, my choice for clear coat is Tamiya semi-gloss (others will disagree with me, but I stand behind this statement based on my own experience)
    2) Start by washing the body with Dawn and drying thoroughly after then followed by a light coat of Tamiya light grey or white primer. You can sand with 2000 or 3000 grit wet paper between coats
    3) Then light coats of Tamiya colour, you can sand in between if you want for a superior finish, no need for wet coat as you will use clear
    4) no need to open shut lines, unless you going for the Chris Walker look and restoring an older body - caveat unless you go to heavy on the paint. (depending colour you will need about 3 coats more or less. Too much paint = weight
    5) apply your decals Microset and Microsol makes for a better finish
    6) Let decals dry for a few days, at least 3 in the summer, wash car very carefully again with distilled water if possible, dry very gently!
    7) apply Tamiya clear in super light mist coats, be patient let it dry for a few hours at least, continue to apply VERY light coats, at least 3 - 4 and let dry in between. One or two medium coats will give you the right amount of sheen.
    8) practising on a white plastic spoon is helpful.
    9) if you don't like the end product, soak the body in Super Clean and try again!

    There are modellers that sand with multiple wet coats and then polish the end product until you can see your long lost Aunt in the paint, I will let them chime if with their expert advice, the above should provide a good ROI for a car that will be used...again...IMHO

    Below are a few of my own examples

    Chris

    PS: Apologies, I did not see the comment about Patto's Peel and Stick - if you decide to go this route, then you will not need the Micro solutions, I would still suggest Tamiya clear over Future, but as I said above, others might not agree. There are many modellers that love using Future! I personally found p&s "stickers"very hard to work with, due to the difficulty in repositioning them versus a water slide decal, and although the p&s is very thin, the water slide decals lay more flat and the edge is almost invisible, especially when you use the Micro solutions.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20200529_212937.jpg Views:	7 Size:	3.11 MB ID:	50090
    Attached Files
    Last edited by F1Fan; August 17, 2020, 10:23 PM. Reason: added comment about peel and stick
    "I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong "
    "And that just shows you how important the car is in Formula One Racing"

    Murray Walker

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Love me that Camel Chris!

    • Fathead59
      Fathead59 commented
      Editing a comment
      I know that Volvo was into racing , but I didn't think that their grocery getter was fast enough for that

  • #3
    Patton’s peel and stick instructions do indeed call for Future, not clear lacquer as he feels his printing may be damaged by lacquer. Since they are peel and stick, not water slide, there is no need for Microsol or Microset. I used his peel and stick on a slot.it white body Jaguar followed by Future (actually now called Pledge Revive it) and am very pleased with the result

    Comment


    • F1Fan
      F1Fan commented
      Editing a comment
      Good catch, I missed the peel and stick comment from the OP, and totally agree that there are many modellers that love Future/Pledge and the results, just not my product of choice.

  • #4
    Thanks Chris, really appreciate your detailed response! Indeed, this car will be raced :-) I do want it to look as good as my poor skills will allow before the abuse starts.

    Mickey appreciate you chiming in re decals. What I’m interpreting then is to coat the peel and stick decal sheet with Future before I cut them and apply and then use the Tamiya clear. That way the decal I sealed by Future then cleared over by Tamiya. Did I get that right as I’ve read that some clears are too hot for Pattos where as Future is recommended by him. Just wondering if anyone has tried this and if there’s been any adverse reaction to Pattos decals....or have others used Tamiya over Pattos and not had any issues?
    Last edited by Giddyup; August 17, 2020, 10:56 PM. Reason: Tamiya over Pattos
    Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
    Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

    Comment


    • F1Fan
      F1Fan commented
      Editing a comment
      Following the steps I mentioned above I have used Tamiya clear over Pattos (and other water decals) as well as peel and stick many times

  • #5
    I have not used Pattos waterslide decals since he stopped using an Alps printer, but recently I used his peel and stick decals on the outside of some clear Lexan bodies. Any sort of waterslide decal will be easily damaged if it is not protected by a durable clear coat. I use Future all of the time and it does not hold up to a lot of handling, solvent based clears are much more robust, but can sometimes damage decals. It has been said that you should apply solvent based clears in many light coats with drying time in between. That is good advice, however if you are using rattle cans it is very easy to apply more clear than you would like, resulting in wrinkled decals. It is good insurance to apply a couple of coats of Future to the decals to act as a barrier before you use something like the Tamiya clear.
    With respect to the peel and stick decals those are very durable and do not need a protective coat, however they have more of a matte finish. If you want some shine you can put Future over them. Sometimes peel and stick decals can be difficult to position, it helps a lot to coat both the decals and the surface that you put them on with soapy water so you can slide them around a little. Since peel and stick decals tend to be thicker than waterslide decals the edges will be more visible, even under a clear coat, so they would not be the best choice for a static model.

    Comment


    • #6
      First, I gotta do this... What does this mean?

      "do a we think sand of the primer with 1500 grit"

      Its driving me nuts.

      Next, I have to say you are making this far more complex than it is. NSR white kits are different. They have very thin bodies, and they have a crazy amount of clearcoat on them. It makes them look great in the package, all shiny and smooth. The clear coat has to come off. Scuffing it won't do the job in this case. On NSR white kits, I very lightly wipe the body in quick strokes with a cloth soaked in 91% isopropyl. When almost all of the clearcoat is gone and all of it is dulled, I lightly sand with #800 wet or dry. The white primer is the right choice, but be certain you have the "fine" version. It only takes one coat, very light but complete. As soon as it is dry to the touch, shoot your first mist coat, but don't hold the can too far away, the particles of paint will dry before they land and you will get a rubbly finish. I get best results with a warmed can held around 8 to 10 inches from the surface, and I seldom need more than one misting and 2 finish coats. Future is still the good stuff, but it doesn't last forever. After 8 years or so, you will need to use a very mild ammonia solution to clean it off easily, and redo it. It gets yellow with age. I once made the mistake of using old Future (like 10 years old!), on a white car. It made a very nice, warm creamy yellow. But it needed to be white! I stripped it by the method I described earlier and used a fresh bottle, and everything was fine. By the way, don't dip a body in Future. It makes it harder for the Future to do its job, wastes the Future and makes a mess. Just stroke it on with a broad, fine bristle brush with heavy brush loading. The Future has good levellers in it and will set up just fine. Brushing is a thinner coat that is much harder.

      Comment


      • #7
        Ok , just a question about using , Pledge / Future . Do you brush it on , or spray it on , or dip it into the Pledge/Future ?

        Comment


        • #8
          And I want to say that I am sorry , I didn't finish reading the last post before I posted my question .

          Comment


          • #9
            Originally posted by waaytoomuchintothis View Post
            First, I gotta do this... What does this mean?

            "do a we think sand of the primer with 1500 grit"

            Its driving me nuts.

            Next, I have to say you are making this far more complex than it is. NSR white kits are different. They have very thin bodies, and they have a crazy amount of clearcoat on them. It makes them look great in the package, all shiny and smooth. The clear coat has to come off. Scuffing it won't do the job in this case. On NSR white kits, I very lightly wipe the body in quick strokes with a cloth soaked in 91% isopropyl. When almost all of the clearcoat is gone and all of it is dulled, I lightly sand with #800 wet or dry. The white primer is the right choice, but be certain you have the "fine" version. It only takes one coat, very light but complete. As soon as it is dry to the touch, shoot your first mist coat, but don't hold the can too far away, the particles of paint will dry before they land and you will get a rubbly finish. I get best results with a warmed can held around 8 to 10 inches from the surface, and I seldom need more than one misting and 2 finish coats. Future is still the good stuff, but it doesn't last forever. After 8 years or so, you will need to use a very mild ammonia solution to clean it off easily, and redo it. It gets yellow with age. I once made the mistake of using old Future (like 10 years old!), on a white car. It made a very nice, warm creamy yellow. But it needed to be white! I stripped it by the method I described earlier and used a fresh bottle, and everything was fine. By the way, don't dip a body in Future. It makes it harder for the Future to do its job, wastes the Future and makes a mess. Just stroke it on with a broad, fine bristle brush with heavy brush loading. The Future has good levellers in it and will set up just fine. Brushing is a thinner coat that is much harder.

            Thanks fo taking time out to reply, I really do appreciate it.

            To your first question, [email protected] autocorrect! I meant a wet sand.

            Next, as I said, I’m new to this painting thing and I have seen that difference in white kit finish between Slot.it and NSR. NSR is more finished as you say versus Slot.it which seems see-through and unpainted. And being new, that’s why I asked if there’s anything I need to do to get the body prepped. And part of the reason I outlined the steps in detail is not to over complicate matters but quite to the contrary, make it simple and easy, since I’m not experienced, so I can follow and mark it off as a I go like a checklist - so I don’t forget a step.

            I do have a question about misting vs finish coats. Misting seems pretty self explanatory, but what is a “finish coat”? How much more spraying does that entail? I have heard of wet coats, but to be honest I’m scared I’d spray too much and have runs etc. Would or could I achieve the same result with more light misting coats?

            Thanks again!
            Tom


            Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
            Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

            Comment


            • waaytoomuchintothis
              waaytoomuchintothis commented
              Editing a comment
              The finish coat is the one when you decide "that's it", and you stop painting. Read what Chris says below about application, he's saying the same things I was. At some point in all this research and advise, you will realize that the "style" people develop over time and experience is all the things you do to accomplish the same effects as anyone else. Learn the core, all the details will come to you in no time at all.

          • #10
            Hi Tom, Not sure where you have netted out, but, a few suggestions..........

            1/800 grit paper will do a great job on the bare shell...600 is a bit too aggressive in my opinion........you could also wet sand the bare body, and again wet sand after priming.

            2/You could use Tamiya pink primer.............it works great for any pink/red cars......Ferrari use pink primer !!
            A couple of mist coats (20mins in between), and you should be good to go.......light coats always work better, as an initial wet coat will not adhere well to the edges of shut lines etc.

            (For all Tamiya rattle can paint,........shake the can well, and place the can in your kitchen sink with hot tap water and let it sit for a minute or so...........it will not blow up,.......and the heat will create more internal pressure on the paint/propellant, and this added pressure will atomize the paint better (smaller droplets) as it exits the can

            3/ While I do use Future on glass/headlight covers, I do not use it on any slot bodies, as, it is actually quite fragile, and does not stand up well to racing.
            It is fine to do a light coat of future on your decals before applying them..........please use waterslide decals, as they look so much better than peel and stick

            4/ For your colour coats, it is much better to apply mist coats (20/30 minutes in between),..until you get the colour density you want. I regularly apply 6/7 mist coats. Tamiya (TS) sprays are a synthetic lacquer, and each subsequent mist coat will lightly dissolve the surface of the previous coat, so there is almost zero orange peel.

            5/ Tamiya clears are wonderful, (hard/durable) but, as they are relatively "hot", they can affect your decals,.........so,........always let the decals dry fully (at least 2/3 days), and apply the Tamiya clear in very light mist coats, with the first 2/3 coats being "dust" coats...........build the dust/mist coats until you get a smooth even finish. I have used Tamiya clear on many many models, and have had no decal issues whatsoever........patience is key

            I have been using Tamiya TS semi gloss a lot over the last couple of years, as it gives a much more realistic finish......a nice shine, without the "porcelain" look

            Cheers
            Chris Walker
            Last edited by chrisguyw; August 20, 2020, 03:43 PM.

            Comment


            • #11
              Thanks everyone who has chimed in so far.

              Chris, I was hoping you would weigh in - as I’ve always admired your artistry.

              I think I’ll do the mist coats until it looks right, as I’m not in a hurry. And while I know water slide decals look better, I’m a novice there, so peel and stick will be my choice with a very simple livery choice. And after what seems to be a consensus as this car will be faced and handled, l will take Chris’s advice and leave the decals for a few days before trying the Tamiya clear, again just misting.

              Thanks again everyone for your input! Body prepping to start today :-)
              Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
              Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

              Comment


              • dinglebery
                dinglebery commented
                Editing a comment
                Cool - can't wait to see your progress pics!

              • Mickey thumbs
                Mickey thumbs commented
                Editing a comment
                The peel and stick from Pattos are sturdier than waterslides and hold up well in rough and tumble racing. I think you’ll be happy with the choice.

            • #12
              Tom,
              My tuppance: 18" is too far away for Tamiya paints. They say 9" is best. I use their primer, their paints, and their gloss/flats. I deseam the bodies and rescribe any detail lost because of that and sand with Tamiya's foam sanding pads. I finish up with 3000 grit, wash the body with soap and let dry. I do lots of fine coats of primer till the body is covered, let it sit 24 hours (though Tamiya is almost instantly dry to the touch) then onto the main color, again lots of fine coats waiting about 3 minutes between coats). Let sit again for 24 hours then add decals then I use a pinwash to bring out the details in the body panels. Once that's done the final gloss or flat coats (again, many fine coats). I don't do any sanding between coats.

              Comment


              • #13
                Thanks for chipping in Mark, appreciate it!

                So after taking in everyone's advice, which all seemed to point to similar themes - I took the plunge. This is only the 2nd time I have attempted to paint. My first was a horrible and failed experience with a resin body. Looking back I'm sure there were some resin body specific things I should have done...and probably a lot more patience!

                Below are some progress pics a summary of what I did, partly for those who may be interested - but quite honestly, more as a reference for me to go back to if I try this again!
                1. Body Prep Part I: lightly dry sanded the body with 1500 grit being careful not to remove any detail; then cleaned the body with warm water and dish soap.
                2. Body Primer:
                  • I used Tamiya's white primer, and taking Chris's advice got the can nice and warm in some hot water for about 10 mins, then vigorously shook the can. I recommend this video to help build the necessary strength ;o) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x539xV6HOso
                  • Started the primer can with a test spray to make sure it was spraying well
                  • I started spraying the primer, about 8-9" away in side to side passes, with constant pressure; I did this outside, the paint looked more like a "fogging" if you will; did the sides, then the top, then the front and back - 2 passes each; then let sit for about 25 mins, all in all about 3 or 4 coats I think and then let the paint cure for about a day
                3. Body Prep Part II:
                  • Very gently wet-sanded the primer with 3000 grit
                  • Washed with warm water and dishwashing liquid and then dried
                4. Body Colour Paint:
                  • I pretty much followed the same "fogging" process above used in priming with 1-2 passes per area per coat, including warming up and shaking the can
                  • I have stopped at 5 coats
                I did make a boo-boo along the way trying to rush an area that needed a bit more paint after the 3 colour coat and ended up getting the can too close which resulted in a small run and bubble behind a front wheel well area. I wet sanded that down and reapplied colour after washing the body again. Not really noticeable now.

                There's a pic below of the car as it currently stands with an old SRC resin Porsche 917/20. The colour looks good to me, so I think I'll start on the next phase. But I do have a few questions to revisit about applying a clear coat.

                So I plan to wash the body to prep it. But I don't think I will wet sand it. The paint looks very uniform, no orange peeling, runs or anything - am actually quite surprised with it! I was figuring I would next apply a clear coat BEFORE applying decals. Then apply decals, then clear over the decals. What do folks think about that?

                Recall, this car will be raced. And by the way, I will be taking the advice and stay away from Future given how much the car will be handled and raced.

                My other question (and maybe this should happen before I clear coat the body?) I had been planning to use car polish (instead of that wet sand) to make the colour pop. Am I overthinking it? As I'm wondering if I use the clear, that will help the sheen of the color as well, right? FYI - Tamiya clear I have on hand is a TS-79 Semi-Gloss Clear.

                Anyways, that's as far I've gotten - your advice and insights are most appreciated!

                Cheers, eh!
                Tom

                A few progress pics so far...

                Body shell sanded and ready for primer
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                First coat of primer

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                Final coat of primer

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                Wet-sanded, primed body

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                First mist coat of colour

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                This is after 3 mist coats and where I got a little impatient, look behind the front wheel well, then second pic is after wet sanded the area:

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                Last picture is where she stands today...

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                Attached Files
                Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
                Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

                Comment


                • #14
                  Originally posted by Giddyup View Post

                  There's a pic below of the car as it currently stands with an old SRC resin Porsche 917/20. The colour looks good to me, so I think I'll start on the next phase. But I do have a few questions to revisit about applying a clear coat.

                  I was figuring I would next apply a clear coat BEFORE applying decals. Then apply decals, then clear over the decals. What do folks think about that?


                  My other question (and maybe this should happen before I clear coat the body?) I had been planning to use car polish (instead of that wet sand) to make the colour pop. Am I overthinking it? As I'm wondering if I use the clear, that will help the sheen of the color as well, right? FYI - Tamiya clear I have on hand is a TS-79 Semi-Gloss Clear.


                  Hi Tom, It looks pretty good !!.............easier than you thought .......you will be master painter in no time

                  There is absolutely no need to ever apply a clearcoat before applying decals,...unless the paint used is matt/flat, then it is a must.

                  You can polish the paint before clearcoating if you choose, and if you do, Tamiya polishing compounds are excellent, and, made for their synthetic lacquers.....that said, I would apply the decals first, clearcoat, and then polish the clear if you choose.

                  I use the Tamiya TS-79 Semi Gloss on a regular basis these days, as it gives a very nice, very realistic finish, without the "porcelain" look of their gloss clear.............you can polish this if you will, (wait a couple of days), this will smooth the finish, but, turn your semi gloss into a gloss finish.............I think that if you build up a few dust/mist coats of the semi gloss, you will be very happy with it as.

                  I gather you are going with the peel/stick decals (sacrilege )............so, here is a tip for peel/stick decals ..................before applying the decal to the model surface, apply a light squirt of Windex to the body where the decal will go, and apply the decal on top the Windex......this will give you the opportunity to pull the decal off easily in case you did not align it well, and, it will help eliminate small air bubbles that can be trapped between the body/decal. Once the decal is in its final proper position, just blot with a Kleenex/rag. It will be completely dry in a few minutes, and this process will not affect the adhesive on the decal back.

                  I have done this on many many bodies over the years.........works great !!

                  Cheers
                  Chris Walker
                  Last edited by chrisguyw; August 28, 2020, 02:16 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Giddyup
                    Giddyup commented
                    Editing a comment
                    LOL Chris, I’m just happy the paint looks ok at this point. Been on the fence re decals, still haven’t ordered them. So it may be a while before my next update. I’ve never even attempted waterslide, so yes likely peel n stick from Pattos (ducks for cover). I have another car, a green 917 that has them (actually Pattos early version of them) and it look honestly pretty good and has stood the test of time.

                • #15
                  So much good advice, I almost (ALMOST) hate to add any info. Couple things important for all painting.
                  1 Before starting, wash your body good with liquid dishwashing soap. Buy the cheapest kind with no additives to make soft hands. Use a toothbrush or similar type brush. Thi is the very first thing to do. If yo want to go a step farther, next scrub it with an SOS soap pad. This make a good starting point for your work.

                  2 Unless using plain white, red or black, stay away from auto paints like Duplicolor. They will give good results, but model spray paint seems to be a finer spray and thinned more, so it is easier to get a smoother coat, Auto paint does work fine, but it takes a bit more skill and luck to get a really slick paint job.

                  3 If you have decalled your body and are unsure about the clear lacquer finish, you can always do a couple coats of Pledge first, wait a day or two and use clear lacquer. You can brush Pledge and it will flow nicely. I do this on a lot of cars that have decals I am unsure about. Everything varies, but being super clean before you start and using paint made for models stops some issues you might have.
                  Matt B
                  So. In
                  Crashers

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                  • Giddyup
                    Giddyup commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks Matt, appreciate this 👍🏻
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