Motor can designation/size list

[noddaz]

Does anyone have a motor can size or designation list they could post?

Something like:

FC-130 is 1 1/4 inch x 7/8th inch (I made that up BTW) And then have a picture of the motor for reference.

Scott

[GT6]

FC130:


FK-180:


FF-050:


Sorry, don't have a pic of the flat can dimensions.

cheers
Scott

[dw5555]

Wow, good post.

[Giddyup]

Good info Scott. Not likely to ever see the Flat can info, as I understand that’s proprietary to Slot.it.

[slothead]

Two things:

1) what determines the designated direction of rotation?

2) what is the effect of running a motor in the opposite direction than it was intended to? How does its performance change?

[chrisguyw]

Two things:

1) what determines the designated direction of rotation?

2) what is the effect of running a motor in the opposite direction than it was intended to? How does its performance change?

Hi Slothead........

1/ Many motors (mostly the higher performing ones, that most of us do not run) have some advance on the Commutator timing, and this dictates the optimal direction of rotation.
As a general rule, most of these motors are timed to turn clockwise, when viewed from the endbell end.

Virtually all of todays "plastic" car motors, made in China, and offered by Slot-it, NSR, Scaleauto, Scalextrix, etc. etc. are assembled with zero comm. timing, so, they can run either direction without issues. That said, often these motors may spin a touch better in one direction, and again, with the modern "plastic" motors. this is not an issue whatsoever.

2/ If the motor has comm timing, it will certainly run opposite to its intended direction, but, it will lose efficiency and also not be as quick.

If you have run one of the modern motors in a specific direction for any length of time it is not advisable to reverse its direction.............subject for another thread.

Cheers
Chris Walker

[GT6]

As the motors pictured are mass produced, mass market general purpose motors (i.e. intended for use in power toothbrushes, car mirrors, etc.), they have neutral timing and will run close to equally well in either direction. The indicated direction of rotation in the drawings just shows which way the motor will turn if +/- power is connected to the terminals as shown.

[mattb]

I've wondered if a motor may not last longer and run better if the rotation direction is away from the arm that holds the brush. As opposed to rotating toward the brush arm. I can draw a picture if this is not clear. Not sure it matters a lot on our motors.

[chrisguyw]

Not sure I get you Matt ??.................there will always be a leading and trailing edge of the brush,.....regardless of rotation direction........ however, I may be missing your meaning !!

[SpeedyNH]

i think that he's talking about the direction to the com that the brush arms are hung from, as in if they're both going toward it from opposite corners in the same arm rotational direction, as opposed to a 'double-overhead' like an FC-130, for example, where one comes down from each side. since it's pretty tough to open some of these motors, maybe one could see in which direction the "brush springs" go from looking through the slots. in one rotation direction, the com would turn away from the 'springs', and in the other direction against them, which might increase brush tension. at least that's what i think he's referring to. i've vaguely wondered about this myself.

[Wobble]

And not to forget the FK-130 which Ninco and FLY (on occasion) made use of

[chappyman66]

Chris is right....most motors have neutral timing where the slots in the commutator line up with the gaps between the stacks. When you are breaking a motor in you can hear this as the motor will sound roughly the same going both directions.
Occasionally you will get one that runs slightly faster in one direction than the other. Used motors do this because of wear patterns on the brushes and commutator, but new motors will occasionally do it if the comm is twisted slightly relative to the poles. That's what is meant by "timing" on a motor.

[Bill from NH]

FK-130s have also been a popular 1/24 scale motor for 10-12 years. Most are can-drive with various degrees of timing. Rotation is mainly counter-clockwise at the endbell, clockwise at the can end, but there are exceptions. (TSR, Falcon 2). I first ran Plafit motors back in 1997.

[chappyman66]

Yup, we ran Plafit motors in sprint cars in the mid 90s too. They have been around awhile.

[GT6]

I've wondered if a motor may not last longer and run better if the rotation direction is away from the arm that holds the brush. As opposed to rotating toward the brush arm. I can draw a picture if this is not clear. Not sure it matters a lot on our motors.

Matt B
So. In
Crashers

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2 comments

• 
  #5.1
  
  chrisguyw commented
  Yesterday, 03:27 PM
  
  
  Not sure I get you Matt ??.................there will always be a leading and trailing edge of the brush,.....regardless of rotation direction........ however, I may be missing your meaning !!

• 
  #5.2
  
  SpeedyNH commented
  Yesterday, 06:10 PM
  
  
  i think that he's talking about the direction to the com that the brush arms are hung from, as in if they're both going toward it from opposite corners in the same arm rotational direction, as opposed to a 'double-overhead' like an FC-130, for example, where one comes down from each side. since it's pretty tough to open some of these motors, maybe one could see in which direction the "brush springs" go from looking through the slots. in one rotation direction, the com would turn away from the 'springs', and in the other direction against them, which might increase brush tension. at least that's what i think he's referring to. i've vaguely wondered about this myself.

Not something I had considered but may be worth looking into.

This won't affect FC-130 motors as the brushes hang down from the same side so there will be one on the upside and one on the downside whchever the direction of rotation:


And there will likely be little difference with FF type motors as they don't have carbon block brushes, the brushes are bare "precious metal" (Mabuchi terminology - maybe gold plated?) that contacts the commutator :


FK type motors are another story though as they do use carbon block brushes that come in from either side of the com, so there will definitely be one direction of rotation where the brush will be pulled along the axis of the support spring and in the opposite direction of rotation the brush will be pushed into the support spring:


Is this a significant factor? I don't have much experience with FK motors (either FK-130 or FK-180) so I don't know. Comments from those more familiar with these motors welcome.

cheers
Scott

[SpeedyNH]

thanks for the pix!
how about finding an FK arm with absolutely zero timing and try breaking it in and running it in both directions to see if it likes one way better than the other? i bet that it would be pretty hard to tell, but one never knows. and the brush spring tension lessening as the brushes wear might dictate going back and forth a couple times unless you could measure it and tweak 'em back in. just thinking out loud.

[Vintage 1/24]

I like the FK-130 and I am unused to 1/32 scale generally.

Is there anything comparable but with a shorter can (shorter than 25mm)?

Where can I find the dimensions of a 030 motor - are there other reasonably powered choices?

I would like to fit a sidewinder motor to a small 1/32 sport car that doesn’t have much “track width”.

[chrisguyw]

I like the FK-130 and I am unused to 1/32 scale generally.

Is there anything comparable but with a shorter can (shorter than 25mm)?

Where can I find the dimensions of a 030 motor - are there other reasonably powered choices?

I would like to fit a sidewinder motor to a small 1/32 sport car that doesn’t have much “track width”.

Hello, A bit more info would be helpful........what sort of performance are you expecting from the car, and how much will it weigh ??

Most 030 motors are 20mm long......excluding the motor shaft, but, including the exposed can bushing , and endbell bits........12mm high, and 15.5mm wide.

There are smaller motors to be had, but they are generally less powerful, a sensible recommendation is hard to make , unless more specifics are given.

Depending on what you are tyring to achieve, below is a modified Mashima Train motor (M920) with an off the shelf moderate HO rewound arm installed.
These motors have small cobalt magnets, and modified as shown, offer roughly the same performance as a mid range FF050.

Cheers
Chris Walker

[Vintage 1/24]

Thanks again,

Did you modify the Machima Train motor M920 yourself? Staring at it through the internet it looks like a little powerhouse.

Would you know where I could find a bread-and-butter FF-030 can motor?

[chappyman66]

SW with FC 130 is generally limited to 59-60mm and that's running 15x8 wheels. You can reduce it a few mm with some of Chris's tricks but in my experience 55mm isn't going to work. Cans are somewhat similar so that probably holds for FK 130 as well (my old eyeballs estimate this morning).
Depending on the car, an AW configuration might work (see Monogram McLaren) since that gets the can out of the way but it limits interior modeling. Too narrow and you are IL.

Otherwise you are down into some customization as Chris has shown or look into the 1/43 motors. BARC1 has used double Minibea motors in little SW, but the performance is moderate as I recall.

[Vintage 1/24]

Thanks for the responses! I am sizing up a car and the dimensions are helpful.

FF-030:



chrisguyw: About 20mm length for the 030 can itself would be helpful to me. The build is nothing serious and will not compete or conform to any spec or even expectation - A low budget build that will be more model railroading than professional slot racing.

It will be really heavy, and if I can get something off the shelf - I would want something that can spin or pull well to move the heft. Also a low budget build. . .

So no rewinds or fancy motor work - I feel I am just not shopping correctly, having a hard time in getting a simple list of 030s for sale where I can pick based on advertised revs or something.

chappyman: I am already under 50mm, actually I am at about 48mm outer sidewall to outer sidewall using the FK130 can. If possible I would like another mm or 2 or 3 to play with. I am thinking an off the shelf 030 at this point. I figure this is done all the time in the world of 1/32 -What 030 do you guys run when you have to run them?