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NSR F1 - thoughts for home track running on wood?

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  • NSR F1 - thoughts for home track running on wood?

    Hey Folks,

    Now that these NSR F1's have been out for a while, I've been considering whether to bite the bullet....but as funds are scarce, thought I'd poll those who have bought one to help me make a decision to justify buying one.

    For context, seeking feedback about how these run no-mag on a smaller, routed home track - my Mugello track is roughly 60' and is a fast flowing circuit like its 1:1 counterpart. Flax latex painted track surface and we run urethanes - so fully expect to swap rear tires out for Paul Gage as that is what we normally run here. So I'm not looking for tire grip feedback or tire suggestions.

    My ask comes from running some NSRs in the past with that same stock motor which were not fun, where I ended up having to replace the motor, fiddle with gearing changes etc. So, what's your thoughts on the stock motor (21.4k, KING motor, 350 gr/cm of torque) and in-line gearing (10:27) combination. Overpowered or not? And if it is, what sort of motor or gearing changes have you done to make it more fun to drive.

    Fully recognize things come to personal feel, but as it relates to my driving style, I'm not an on/off the throttle driver - so I prefer more flow re: car responsiveness.

    Look forward to hearing about your experiences!
    Tom
    Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
    Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

  • #2
    We have one here. Seemed to be a bit overpowered. Replaced the stock motor with a 18k s can. Now it’s very manageable and fun to drive.
    Scott.....War Eagle River......Tampa, Florida, USA

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Scott. I assume you kept the stock pinion and crown gear, what sort of S can did you put in torque-wise?
      Last edited by Giddyup; December 17, 2020, 05:42 PM.

    • War Eagle River
      War Eagle River commented
      Editing a comment
      Predator 18k. Stock gear ratio kept.

    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Awesome, thanks Scott, appreciate it. Your approach seems closest to what I’d lean to.

  • #3
    I have one of the NSR F1 cars and it is not overpowered. My track is approx. 69 feet and all flat except one slight inclined corner. A formula one car is supposed to be powerful and not that easy to drive. This car lives up to that. This is the first NSR car I have that has the large can motor, so not sure how long it will last. Have several Slot.it boxer motored cars, HRS2 chassis, that are 4-6 years old and still run very strong.

    The NSR F1 is easy to control; but you have to pay attention because it is quick. I have only one car that is quicker than this and it is a Slot.it Lola with the flat-6s motor. Lap times are 7.94 for the Lola and 8.02 for the F1. There is no lead used and the set up is as it came out of the box. All on 12 volts. All of the cars that I have use the gearing that the manufacturer put in them. Even the scratch built ones that I have use the same gearing that is in the factory cars. I use Paul Gage tires on all my cars.

    I tried putting a 14k motor in a car one time and it was like watching paint dry; boring. When I was a lot younger I ran Group 20 and sometimes unlimited cars on the commercial tracks, so this may have something to do with my not complaining that the NSR F1 is hard to control.

    Joseph

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Joseph, nice track. When you say the car is "not that easy to drive", curious which part(s) of your track does the F1 struggle with? Would help me get a feel for how the car acts.

      By the way, 12V would certainly be a challenge through some of those corners - especially for higher torque motors. We run all our track between 10-11v; it's been a happy medium - with lap times actually dropping. Link to our track is here:

      https://www.hrwforum.com/forum/hrw-a...ountain-racers

      As far as gearing, I'd like to retain the stock gearing too. Our club only has one open/tuners class, not that we are racing right now with COVID etc, but I'm also looking at these cars as a suggestion for a potential addition to our club classes.

      But before going down that route, we'd like to keep the costs down (NSR are already pricey enough) and avoid members' having to spend more time and money to change gearing and motors too...as opposed to their LM Classics which are fantastic out of the box.

  • #4
    Hi Tom, If you are looking for an F1 car (particularly if you are looking to start an F1 class at your club), it is hard not to like the NSR's................they are fairly robust, handle well, are quick, and between the liveries available, and the aftermarket decal sheets available, you can have a very varied grid.

    While the FK-180 motors, with their longer stronger magnets are certainly a benefit on plastic tracks (if you like the magnet effect ). I find these cars do go better on most mid size wood tracks with an FC-130 installed........your mileage may vary

    That said, the stock motor/gear ratio is far from unmanageable, particularly if you have an adjustable sensitivity/brake controller........take the plunge, I think you will be impressed, and, as the motor bracket is drilled, it is certainly easy enough to bolt in an FC-130......and, there is absolutely zero need for any sort of adapter.

    It does go without saying that all the typical things that are normally done to any plastic based car will result in noticeably better performance.

    Done up, mine are competitive with all but the best of my cars.

    Cheers
    Chris Walker

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Chris, appreciate you weighing in. I assume from your comments, that you have retained the stock gearing/ratio. What type of FC-130 motor did you put in place of the long can...specifically, what kind of torque does it have? Thanks!

    • chrisguyw
      chrisguyw commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Tom, I have tried a variety of FC-130's in these cars, and for our local tracks, anything in the 20/23K range works well. I am currently using one of the Piranha 21K motors (listed at 165gms. torque) geared at 9/26,........most of the FC-130 motors in this rpm range have similar torque ratings so would likely use similar ratios, and offer similar performance.

      I am using the Piranha as I have several, and they do work well on our local club tracks, but similarly rated motors from NSR, Slot-it, Scaleauto etc.will work equally as well, and with the car weighing less than 65gms, all the 20K (ish) motors will have plenty of brakes/acceleration, geared in the 2.8:1 to 3:1 range

      If your track favours a touch more weight in the car, I would add 2/3 teeth to the Crown, or drop a tooth on the pinion.

      Hope this helps, and if you need more,...holler!!

      Cheers
      Chris Walker

  • #5
    When I meant they are hard to drive, I was talking abut the real F1 cars. I have a controller (Truspeed MT-1) with adjustments for the power and braking. This makes running 12 volts easier. I have always raced with 12 volts. It is the voltage that slot cars have always used since I started racing slot cars. I am 70 years old and have been doing this off and on since the mid sixties. When I have to slow the cars done then it is time to quit.

    Joseph

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      LOL thanks Joseph. By the way, looking at your online name, are you based in Calgary? There’s a community called Silver Springs close to me!

  • #6
    Four of us have one at my club, they all go well so I bought one second hand with a small front wing repair required.

    An MB/Allslot fibreglass chassis F1 with a 30k Shark holds the track record for rubber tyred cars at 5.61 secs. The quickest NSR Moslers manage to just get into the 5.8's.

    The NSR F1 has a magnet, ditch that first, fit a decent wood track guide second (Sloting Plus is my fave).
    I stiffened my chassis with 1mm piano wire superglued to the top of the chassis.
    Next I sleeved the front axle and glued that in place as the front part of the chassis is super flexible.
    Glued/trued tyres front & rear and hard coated the fronts to reduce rolling resistance.
    Next a 0.25mm steel shim was glued to the bottom of the motor to reduce magnetic effect below our clubs 25g max limit.
    Now I ran it and thought the car didn't flow quite how I'd like so changed the 27T spur to a 26T.
    The stock rear tyres are pretty damn good once polished, they don't seem to grip-up like the older NSR rubber with oiling but lighter fluid or Koala Klaws helps.
    Now a good lap with one of these without my wire & axles sleeve mods is a high 5.8 secs, mine does 5.7's

    ...they are excellent cars even with no mods other than remove the magnet and trued/glued tyres.

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Kevan, appreciate you sharing your set up steps. No magnetic affect for us to worry about running on wood. Your gearing change caught my eye. I’ve run a few long cans, mainly flat 6 22k, with a gearing around 10:24 which worked well, so when I saw the 10:27 but with that stock motor torque...I’ve been hesitant to pull the trigger. 🍻

  • #7
    Fast...wait..I mean FAST!!! we have group here with 5 wood routed tracks and the F1s with just glue and true are some of the fastest cars we run. Weight, Guide, Adjusting the front axel all help. They drive smooth and brake firmly. The EVO king they come with can keep up with some of our GT type cars fitted with 25K sharks almost the 30Ks but on longer tracks the higher RPMs win out. I have 3 of them and I have a blast running them.
    Last edited by Impulse-ive; December 17, 2020, 09:36 PM.

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Nice cars 👍🏻 What sort of size tracks do you guys race on?

    • Impulse-ive
      Impulse-ive commented
      Editing a comment
      Size of the tracks vary in our group. some like are shorter. I consider mine short. 14x8 at the longest parts. Other have much longer tracks which is where you see the motor limits on the longer straights. I did forget to mention we all run our tracks at 10v.

  • #8
    Thanks so far, appreciate it gents!

    For those that have switched motors, anyone put in a different long can? I’ve looked into possible solutions, being the NSR Spanish King (19k) and SCC Jaws (17.5k) which I be,I’ve both are 270 gr/cm. But probably sill much “juice”. I’ve used a NSR Baby King too which is very peppy at around 245 gr/cm...anyone got down that road?
    Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
    Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

    Comment


    • Brad_T
      Brad_T commented
      Editing a comment
      When I put my F1 car together I used the NSR3031 19.5K and it worked great on my 60 wood track running at 10.25 volts. It was easy to drive and control with minimal tuning out of the box. I find the Baby King too slow on my track at the voltage I am running.
      When a couple other guys got one I put the 21.5K back in and was still easy to control and fast. I have run the car with Paul Gage urethane and with the stock rubber that came on the car. Depending on the temp either tire can be the winner. No gear changes and no weight, just set the axle height and put in a NSR screw in guide, not a wood guide.
      You can't go wrong with the purchase of one..or two, lol. Try it with a lower powered motor if you like but definitely give the stock motor a go.

  • #9
    These cars look so good going around the track they are a must have, I just put a quick set up on the stock car and just kept adjusting the power supply.
    At 10 volts they were just perfect. My 8yo twins love them!

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      oh oh...this is tempting me! LOL

  • #10
    Click image for larger version

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    Attached Files

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    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Beauty of a track, love the DC decor ;O)

    • Impulse-ive
      Impulse-ive commented
      Editing a comment
      Those are my comiccon bags from over the years. no way I could throw them out and it was a great way of making a skirt for the track table.

  • #11
    I like the JAWS because it's milder than the Baby, and half price.

    This is a fun car and like you have seen already, a purpose built race platform ready for YOUR tuning. I swapped to the JAWS and Paul Gage tires. Just a little lead in the belly and fine for my smaller track.

    Don't think you could go wrong. Just tune and test and find your own sweet spot.
    -Harry

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      Harry, I think you just sold me. I've got both of those motors in my spares box, but hadn't yet run the Jaws on anything. If it's milder, then I think I'm gonna follow you lead and put one in if the KING is too much. It's been VERY hard to resist ...oh well, but at least I hadn't really bought any cars this year, so time to give myself a Xmas present ;o)

  • #12
    My Silver Springs is in northern Nevada. About 40 miles ENE of Carson City, NV. That is why the track is landscaped the way it is; few trees but mostly desert.

    Joseph

    Comment


    • Giddyup
      Giddyup commented
      Editing a comment
      We're quite arid here believe it or not, very dry climate, but we get the white stuff. Well, maybe not as much as the NE did today...geeez, I heard Dave K is still snow blowing his driveway...more on that in his update no doubt tomorrow.

      Reason I asked is that I've heard there is another slotist who lives in that neck of the woods and I figured I'd finally found them!

  • #13
    I just had to get the Jagermeister car. When I first ran it, I thought it was was too overpowered for my small - make that tiny - wood track.
    I recently remotored three NSR angle winders with Baby Kings. I thought of doing the same with the F1 so I pulled it out for another run. I changed my mind. A change in how I drove it made me really like the car as it is. If anything, I may try a 9 tooth pinion in the future.

    Tiny track (definitely not suited for NSRs; that’s a 1/24 BRM Escort on the track):

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by WB2; December 18, 2020, 12:28 AM.

    Comment


    • waaytoomuchintothis
      waaytoomuchintothis commented
      Editing a comment
      I like that track a lot. You should do HRW a community favor and start a Tiny Track topic, and give details about how it was built, how much material, footprint, etc.

      I have one for testing that is a circle so it doubles as a tire tester. I could add that. The biggest reason people don't have tracks at home is the space involved. This could be a lot of help, as well as interesting problem-solving.

    • WB2
      WB2 commented
      Editing a comment
      On one of the forums I gave a brief description of the track in a lightweight track thread. It didn’t turn out too light.
      There’s a 6’ x 16’ Carrera track on the floor in that picture. To be honest, I like the small track better. Everything up close and constant action. Track is 4’ x 8’. Originally AC2Car; would like to try adding Carrera digital CPU so I can run two cars again.
      After receiving Harry’s legend car, looking at the size made me think those cars would be great on a small 4’ x 8’ oval. A lot of action in a small space.
      The nice thing about small tracks is a deslot is rectified with a reach instead of a walk.

  • #14
    I forgot to add we run the track at 13.8v

    Comment


    • #15
      My track is a collection of long sweeping curves plus a couple of tight ones running for 70'. My NSR F1 runs great in it's stock form, I even use the NSR rubber. I like the NSR motors for the wide range of throttle response they seem to have, If it seems too fast for your track you could always switch to a smaller pinion or a larger crown gear. ( as in # of teeth )Click image for larger version  Name:	thumbnail (4).jpg Views:	0 Size:	137.5 KB ID:	69735

      Comment

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