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Love hate relationship with magnets.

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  • Love hate relationship with magnets.

    What is the best way to get an "inbetween" setting between magnets or no magnets?

    While I like to race both types, there has to be something between a no mag car that feels loose, sloopy & something like a 1000 hp car with bald tires and a "You could drive this on a ceiling!" experience that some magnets give. I know, I know. A properly set up and tinkered with no mag car is a joy to drive, more fun and more of a challenge. I get that. But that involves parts and weight tinkering, and even then, in the end, I don't think that they feel like a modern LMP or F1 car. They're still too "loose".

    Bottom line question. Do some manufacturers offer drop in mags (to replace factor stock mags) that are half, or even 1/3rd strength? Thanks.

  • #2
    Once you go wood, you never go back...

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    • #3
      No magnets, better tires, more weight, loose body...... You can make a car handle a better by doing more than just removing magnets....... Should be some good replies here as so many of these guys run without mags.
      Matt B
      So. In
      Crashers

      Comment


      • #4
        Back in the 90s, Ninco released the McLaren F1GTR with a front mounted ferrite magnet. The cars slid a little....not as much as without magnets, but you could slide it if you wanted to. The Carrera cars have a sliding front magnet which adjusted the height hence the strength.
        Fly really pioneered the strong neo magnets in the 1/32 cars with the Viper.

        So....use a front mounted (behind the front axle) ferrite magnet and you will have something approximating a half strength magnet. I don't think there are a lot of them out there as drop-in replacements....you will have to get them from a science supply or surplus place.

        Or....just go completely non-mag. Good aftermarket tires make it a very pleasant non-ice driving experience.
        Come Race at The Trace!
        Timberline Trace International Raceway - SW of Mpls, MN

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        • #5
          Before we switched to wood tracks where traction magnets were useless we tried moving the traction magnets further forward, that let the cars slide rather than deslot suddenly.

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          • #6
            I love driving my wife's Sideways Hurracan. She hates driving it. So maybe I should just call it mine It has a very low amount of magnetic downforce thanks to the magnets in the motor itself. It also kicks any other car I own including a few with magnets and holds my lap record. Just a well balanced car with tyres that suit the track. Love it that way.

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            • #7
              Tire choice and preparation is pretty important for non-mag running. Gluing and truing tires is key to a smooth running car. Stock tires are ok, but aftermarket is the way to go for more grip, especially if you're going to go to the trouble of gluing and truing up a set of wheels.

              If you're racing non-mag, then it's a good idea to start out a quality car like Slot.it, NSR, etc. These run great non-mag out of the box with minor tuning and have all the go faster bits already installed. These cars are built for tuning with or without magnets. There are often multiple magnet positions. Moving the magnet forward will make it more slidey.

              If you do choose to race with magnets, a Magnet Marshal is key to tuning as it allows you to accurately measure magnetic downforce. You can reduce magnetic downforce by either shimming a magnet higher in the chassis, or by heating the magnet with a lighter. Tire height can be used to vary magnetic downforce as well.

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              • #8
                If you want to race with magnets a magnet marshal is essential. It is a device that measures the weight of a slot car and the additional downforce created by magnets installed in or on a slotcar. For instance a typical 1/32 unweighted slot car weighs 80-90 grams. A stock Scalextric 1/32 car with magnet installed will appear to weigh 150-200 grams on the magnet marshal. Clubs that allow magnets usually establish a rule allowing a max apparent weight of 250 grams or some other value agreed upon by the racers. It is necessary to have a magnet marshal to verify downforce before every race. Tires that loose diameter as they wear allow a car to increase it's downforce due to the magnet getting closer to the rails or magna braid. This is why many clubs just ban magnets all together. I might also mention that tire glue (sticky stuff) should be banned too, as it makes tracks harder to keep clean.

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                • #9
                  The OP did not say if he ran his cars in formal races, people often say "race" when I would use the term "run" for less formal situations.
                  You can reduce the strength of a neodymium magnet by heating it up, you can also shim the magnet or otherwise re-position it to get it further from the rails. If you leave the magnet in the stock position you may not get the effect that you are looking for however, the car would still tend to be all or nothing but the limit would just be lower.
                  If traction magnets are removed entirely or you run the car on a track without solid rails or magnabraid a number of problems that were masked by the magnetic downforce are likely to be revealed. I expect that most clubs that race without traction magnets reduce to track voltage somewhat, an alternative to that would be to switch to less powerful motors.
                  In a club racing setting where traction magnets or motors with a measure of magnetic downforce might be effective it is a common practice to use a Magnet Marshal or similar device and set a limit on how much downforce is allowed.
                  Now all of the Shoreline Model Raceways tracks are wood, one of those does have Magnabraid however. In that case we would have to check the cars for traction magnets and for motors that add downforce. We race exclusively on silicone tires, which do not benefit from any treatment beyond cleaning.
                  Some cars run well without traction magnets, others require a considerable amount of tuning (and expense) in order to get them to run well. See this article: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qB...qnhl30_ixis4rX

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                  • #10
                    I use magnets on most of my cars, I do not like the glued to the track cars.I use magnets to settle the car down so it does'nt blow off the back tires.
                    I have used them on my classic 60s slotcars, I have a 100 ft Carrera track the work great they still slide around you ahve to drive them they are not stuck
                    and they are fun . I have both and I enjoy them very much and run some of the new ones with the factory magnets and out on some slicks works great.
                    My 2 cents

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                    • #11
                      I'd suggest repositioning traction magnets off the centerline of the car -- one on either side. The idea is that you get added downforce only once the car starts to slide. It should make the car more forgiving while not making it binary -- rocket down the track or rocket into the wall.

                      How far off the centerline? Ideally enough so that when the magnet hooks up the car is past the point of fast cornering. Yes, you've saved yourself from a deslot, but you're paying for it in race speed.

                      Once many years ago I built a test track with copper power conductors but with a third, steel rail farther out. If a magnet car drifted too wide it would be saved by the steel rail, but would crab enough around the corner that it would lose time. It actually worked just as intended, but I never developed the concept any further. Magnet cars have never been my thing. That test track is long gone.

                      Ed Bianchi

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                      • #12
                        Dave [dw5555] and I run Carrera D/124 cars with the rear magnet removed and the center mag left in. I like cars that can slide, and these have a bit of slide in them. They are not stuck down. We are running on Carrera track which has less magnetic attraction than other brands, due to the stainless alloy rails.
                        If I remember right your current track is Scalextric so it will have a higher magnetic attraction.
                        I would remove the rear magnet first [or in the case of a car that only has a rear magnet, move it in front of the motor] and try the car.
                        Like others have said, if it is still not to your liking, try a shim under the magnet. Then maybe another shim or a thicker one.
                        If still not happy, move the magnet forward in the chassis if possible.
                        I have C6 Corvette that I set up like Ed suggested in post #11 with the magnets set off to the side. This particular car uses 3 square magnets side by side instead of a single rectangular magnet. So I removed the center one leaving the 2 outer ones in, with a spacer where the center mag was to separate the 2 remaining mags. Works great on this car. The tires are trued down far enough so that this car has less ground clearance than my other C6 which has all 3 square center mags left in and they drive about the same.
                        I know you are running 1/32nd, but I think the principles would be the same.
                        Also you can try flipping the magnet upside down, as I have noticed some magnets have less pull on one side than the other.
                        As to your bottom line question, I think some slot it cars have magnets that are shaped different on one side, so that part of the magnet sets into grooves or holes in the motor pod making it ride lower in the chassis increasing the downforce.
                        Other than that, I am not aware of brand specific drop in magnets that are less down force [although there are definitely weaker and stronger magnets out there].
                        Randy

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                        • #13
                          Slot it make a race magnet for their pods, PM also do a race magnet for Scalextric, direct swap

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by downtowndeco View Post
                            What is the best way to get an "inbetween" setting between magnets or no magnets?

                            While I like to race both types, there has to be something between a no mag car that feels loose, sloopy & something like a 1000 hp car with bald tires and a "You could drive this on a ceiling!" experience that some magnets give. I know, I know. A properly set up and tinkered with no mag car is a joy to drive, more fun and more of a challenge. I get that. But that involves parts and weight tinkering, and even then, in the end, I don't think that they feel like a modern LMP or F1 car. They're still too "loose".

                            Bottom line question. Do some manufacturers offer drop in mags (to replace factor stock mags) that are half, or even 1/3rd strength? Thanks.
                            You mentioned after market parts in getting a no mag car set up?

                            Quite honestly, I’d say that is NOT true for most cars. Now if you excuse some of the Revell and old Pink Cars, pretty much everything else can be “tuned” to run smooth. The biggest items being ensuring the wheels are trued to be round before you glue and true your tires of choice on. Profile edges, inner and outer. Do all of this for both front and back tires.

                            Set the fronts to barely touch, coat them with superglue or nail polish if you like. Remove the side to side slip with some shims/spacers. Rear axle gets the same shim treatment. Run in your gears for 30-65 seconds with some gritty toothpaste and clean and lube. Use a dab of a nail polish to set your rear bushings in place. Dab of oil after done for lubrication. If you have some guide slop, put in a guide shim. Push against the grain on the braid to fluff it, make it lay flat and curl at ends so guide sits deep in slot.

                            Dab of shoo goo to set motor in cradle so it doesn’t rock. Now make sure the chassis edges aren’t fouling with body, sand edges of need be. A very quick sand to open up chassis body post holes to allow for some free float of body when screwed in. Add a some weight, usually 5gr is a good start just in front of motor and/or a few gr behind the guide. I take a 7gr wheel weight, cut off 5gr then use the left over 2gr piece. You ca usually get a handful of weights from a tire shop for free.

                            And go! Total after market costs? Hmmm a few shims, dab of toothpaste, dab of shoo goo, some nail polish....and oh maybe a guide shim? What’s that run you? Less than a buck..ok, you may add a new set of rear tires, so say $5-6. Hard to beat that.

                            Fully realize you said no tinkering, but if you have the patience to scenic, doing the above is much quicker and easier to do. I’ve used these methods on Scaley, Carrera and yes even the dreaded Fly’s to make me run nice. I’ve got a Scaley Aston Martin DBR9 that holds its own with some Slot.it. I’ve also done similar to a NSR Corvette, you should see it go, puts mag cars to shame!
                            Founding member of Rocky Mountain Racers, a 1/32 club based in Calgary, Alberta Canada: http://www.facebook.com/rockymtnracers
                            Canada’s Tourist Trophy Event Founder and Organizer: http://www.facebook.com/touristtrophycanada

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                            • #15
                              Thanks to all for the tuning advice, I appreciate it. The thing is, I wasn't looking for no-mag tuning advice. I generally like the way LMP & F1 cars handle with magnets, I think it's more realistic. The problem I have is that often the stock mags that come with most cars are too powerful. What I was hoping for was to see if the manufactures simply offered drop in mags that were simply less powerful. I didn't want to get into heating magnets and measuring their strength with magnet marshall and finding replacement magnets on ebay to fit or any of the stuff a guy has to do to get a car to run smoothly without magnets.

                              It just seems to me it would make sense for manufacturers to offer drop in replacements for the stock mags that come with the cars. You'd have 100% stock, which admittedly, is often ridiciously too strong,, 1/2 strength and then one that was about 1/3rd of the strength of a stock magnet. It would offer 3 very different driving experiences. Jmho.

                              Thanks again for the input, cheers!

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                              • b.yingling
                                b.yingling commented
                                Editing a comment
                                I figured you would get far more exhortations and suggestions for running w/o magnets than you would actual advice. But the advice you did get was good. Move the magnet forward, if you can, place a piece of steel between the magnet and the track, and finally, use smaller magnets (Carrera cars have two, and we almost always remove the rear one; and before everyone jumps down my throat for using a magnet, we run all of our slot.it cars- and even some Carrera cars- with no magnets)
                                Last edited by b.yingling; January 21, 2020, 03:10 PM.
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